B-flat Tenor Brass: What's the Difference?

Bass trumpets. Flugabones. Trombones in various bore sizes. Baritones in various shapes and sizes. Euphoniums. There are so many different kinds of 9-foot B-flat brass instruments that broadly function in the tenor register, so how do you justify them all?

Easy: they all sound different! Admittedly sometimes the differences are small, but the differences ARE there. Each was designed for a different purpose, but how do they compare when you put them head to head? Time to find out!

What follows is a cornucopia of audio files from various 9-foot instruments that I owned or had access to long enough to sit down and record for a while. This is by no means complete yet; I have a bunch more instruments and instrument/mouthpiece combinations to record, and I will continue adding to this as I gain access to different instruments. It is a forever work in progress, but hopefully before long it will be a comprehensive archive of most of the B-flat low brass out there. I may add tenor brass in other keys as well, but I’ll have to rework the excerpts to accommodate their ranges.

For now, let’s take a brief look at the instruments I’ll be demoing.

1973 King 3B tenor trombone (.508” bore)

This is my main gigging commercial tenor trombone. It is extremely versatile, equally at home knocking down buildings on a funk or salsa gig or playing in a brass quintet. I use two mouthpieces with this instrument - a Warburton 8S/4* (very shallow lead mouthpiece) and a Hammond 11M (normal-depth V-cup general purpose mouthpiece).

1979 Conn 5H tenor trombone (.500” bore)

This is an Abilene Conn 5H, which is a lightened 6H. It tends to have a bright sound with lots of core, great for pop work. It doesn’t like my Hammond 11M, so I use it only with my shallow Warburton 8S/4* (which it likes very much).

1984 King 1130 flugabone (.500” bore)

The source of the word “flugabone”, and a very good player. I’ve gigged on this a ton and its shouty sound is a great asset to have. Gotta be careful with mouthpiece choice though!

1973 Olds O-21 flugabone (.515” bore)

Another flugabone (or “marching trombone” in Olds-speak) that feels more refined and restrained than the King 1130. The better choice for classical flugabone playing (???) and jazz combo work.

Josef Lidl rotary Bb bass trumpet (~.440” bore)

An old-school bass trumpet with a very small bore, that makes up for its difficulty with its piercing trumpet sound.

Blessing Artist M-300 marching baritone (.562” bore)

An older model of marching baritone that plays very well with a nice, colorful sound. I used this model baritone in high school marching band! This model also has a Bauerfiend valve set for some reason???

The Excerpts

I’ve prepared five contrasting excerpts to showcase the differences in all the instruments that will be playing them. (And by “prepared”, I mean “improvised on the spot when recording the first instrument”.) They are all very short, but give some good information. All instruments were recorded close-mic’d into my Cascade Fat Head ribbon microphone. I generally left intonation foibles in rather than re-taking until it was perfect, as tricky intonation is an important part of playing each instrument.

First up is a short marcato excerpt with 3 parts. I divided up the takes into 1 part solo, 3 parts (1 on a part), and 3 parts tripled (3 on a part).

Solo first:

3 parts (1 on a part, no doublings):

3 parts tripled (3 on a part) and panned to simulate a large section:

The next excerpt is a very short, softer triadic statement that starts high and ends low. As with the last excerpt, this one has 3 parts and was recorded the same 3 ways.

Solo first:

3 parts (1 on a part, no doublings):

3 parts tripled (3 on a part) and panned to simulate a large section:

The next excerpt is quick, high, and loud. 3 parts, nothing else. Very simple.

This one is a brief jazz excerpt in a typical 4-part big band trombone section style.

The last excerpt is a short 4-part chorale on the softer side. Starting with just the 4 parts, we’ll go through some fun variations later.

4 parts, no doubling:

The same stems as above, but this time drenched in some nice reverb:

This time each of the 4 parts is doubled, making for 8 total players.

Now we take the doubled parts and bring the reverb back.

Just for fun, after I finished recording the first 6 instruments, I unmuted all tracks on the chorale and exported that result too. This makes 48 players on 4 parts - 12 on a part, 2 per instrument. Just in case you ever wanted to know what a massed choir of bass trumpets, trombones, flugabones, and marching baritones sounded like.

Finally, I thought the massed chorale sounded so good that I decided to try pitch shifting the whole thing to see how it would sound in different ranges. I started by pitching down, but I was not prepared for the heavenly trumpet sound I got when I pitched up!

That’s all for now. As mentioned at the top of the post, there are still more instruments to record. At the very least, I have 4 trombones, possibly a bass trombone or 3, British baritone horn, and euphonium to add to the pile. In time!

In the mean time, if you’re interested in more comparisons, I uploaded some quick phone mic comparisons of some of these instruments on YouTube a few days ago.

The One Ring of Trombones

In many ways, most common brass instruments could be pared down to one model of instrument and no harm would be done. For example, if the only kind of trumpet in the world was a Bach 37, very little would change. Orchestral players would have to get used to not using C trumpets and/or rotaries, and high baroque and solo repertoire would be more difficult. But overall, business would pretty much continue as usual. The Bach 37 is played by many players in every style where a trumpet exists, and it works perfectly well in all of them. I personally have never played a Bach 37 I’ve liked, but it would still be my immediate suggestion for the only model of trumpet in the world.

Horns are even more flexible; you could pick an Alexander 103 or a Yamaha YHR-671D or any number of other popular double horns as the world’s only kind of horn and no harm would be done (apart from in historically-informed performance, but that’s a casualty in any of these “one instrument” scenarios).

A Besson Sovereign would be my pick for the only euphonium, but it could just as easily be a Yamaha YEP-642. Tuba is a little more difficult, but you can just pick one that’s pretty good at everything. For my money that would be a British compensating E-flat, such as a 19” bell Besson.

Trombones seem to be the most difficult; you need to find a trombone that can do everything, from alto to contrabass. That means screaming 4-hour salsa gigs, stratospheric Bill Watrous or Dave Steinmeyer jazz ballads, delicate Mozart alto trombone parts, heavy Mahler or Wagner orchestral parts from 1st to 4th, wild Broadway pit books, earth-shaking low blasts in modern film scores, and more. You don’t get to have one alto trombone, one small tenor trombone, one bass trombone, and so on. You can only have one kind of trombone, total.

Of course, there is no answer to this question that doesn’t compromise in some way. No single trombone can play alto and contrabass parts equally well. We need to find a trombone that can do everything decently enough that trombone players would be able to make it work. To me, that means it needs to be a medium-sized tenor trombone with F attachment that isn’t picky about what mouthpieces work in it, has an unusually beefy low register, an easy high register, the volume to project over a salsa or rock band, and a very “vanilla” trombone sound that is easily colored.

What trombone does all of that? Easy: the King 3BF.

For my money, the 3BF (along with its slightly larger stablemates, the King 3B+F and King 607) is the most versatile trombone of all time. I have used mine to play every tenor chair in a big band, lots of salsa gigs, New Orleans jazz, bebop combo work, principal trombone in an orchestra, brass quintet, Broadway books that go well into the bass trombone register, entire classical trombone sections top to bottom in recording sessions, and more. No, it doesn’t have as beefy of a low register as a bass trombone, but you’d be surprised at how much sound you can put through those low notes on the 3BF. The F valve has an E pull as well, so even if we don’t get to have 2-valve 3BFs in this hypothetical one-trombone world, we’d still do just fine on the low stuff.

Now the 3BF is certainly a bit biased towards the brighter, higher commercial side of the trombone’s oeuvre. The 607, being just a bit larger but otherwise the same, sits more right down the middle between the orchestral and commercial sides of the spectrum. The very high register (D5 and above) is just a bit more work than the 3BF, but in exchange you get an absurdly beefy low register (better than most large bore tenors in my opinion!), and a sound that more easily fits into the darker classical mold while still easily being able to play as bright and punchy as you need for any other genre you might find yourself playing in. But the 3BF and 607 play very similarly, with only a small difference that is mostly noticed when playing them back to back. On their own, you pick either up and it just works immediately, in any style. As an additional plus, these trombones are very easy to play and can handle lots of abuse, so it wouldn’t be a bad situation for beginners either.

It’s an easy conclusion for me. If the only kind of trombone in the world was the King 3BF (or 607), we would be just fine.

Soprano Trombone

Do you want to buy a soprano trombone? Do you want to know why the soprano trombone exists? Do you want to explore the weird world of comically small trombones? If you answered “yes” to any of those questions, this article is for you.

The soprano trombone isn’t as endangered as most of the other instruments I write about on this site, and there is a good amount of information about it online. But I’ll start with a brief summary of what it is in case you’ve discovered it first through this article.

Thein soprano trombone

The soprano trombone is a trombone pitched one octave above the standard tenor trombone; in other words, it is pitched the same as a standard B-flat trumpet. It usually has a trumpet shank and can be played with a variety of mouthpieces. Nowadays you can buy extremely affordable Chinese soprano trombones from quite a few vendors, but almost nothing has ever been written for the instrument and professional-quality soprano trombones are very rare. Soprano trombones are sometimes referred to and marketed as slide trumpets; it’s easy to understand why, as the cheap ones are usually made with trumpet parts and they sound like trumpets when played with a trumpet mouthpiece. But the name “slide trumpet” was already taken by an interesting Renaissance trumpet variant centuries before anybody ever applied it to the soprano trombone, so it is better to avoid. Interestingly, in the early 20th century manufacturers sold both “slide trumpets” and “slide cornets”, the only difference being the mouthpiece shank.

Despite being a logical member of a very well-established instrument family, the soprano trombone has almost never been explicitly written for. There are good reasons for this, and good articles and academic publications have written at length about the subject (especially regarding early music). The only place where the soprano trombone gained a permanent foothold was in Moravian trombone choirs, whose core instrumentation was a large mass of trombones from soprano to B-flat contrabass. Even the German Posaunenchor ditches the soprano trombones for Kühlohorns (a variety of rotary flugelhorn) on the top parts, and most trombone choirs do not use anything above alto trombone at all. More recently, the soprano trombone has garnered some attention from its use in jazz by Wycliffe Gordon, but apart from this and the efforts of contemporary classical soloist Torbjörn Hultmark and avant-garde jazz soloist Steven Bernstein, the instrument remains essentially unused in any notable capacity.

In my opinion, there is a simple reason for this: nobody knows what mouthpiece to use for it.

Cheap Chinese soprano trombones always come with a generic 7C trumpet mouthpiece. This makes it sound like an out of tune trumpet and is not desirable. Wycliffe Gordon uses his own custom hybrid mouthpiece with a trombone rim and cup on a trumpet shank, but while you can order these from Chasons, they are very expensive. Someone interested in dipping their toes in the soprano trombone is not likely to want to spend $300 on a mouthpiece for it, especially if its only documented use is by Wycliffe Gordon, who is hardly a normal player like us mere mortals! As a result, the few who do buy soprano trombones typically don’t venture very far off the trumpet mouthpiece path.

I have long held my own theories about what the ideal soprano trombone mouthpiece would be, and I have been able to test some of these theories to favorable results. I used to own an extremely cool soprano trombone, which I have to share here:

This is a handmade German soprano trombone, with a rotor that has slides to put it in A, Ab, G, or F. The rotor is activated by an old-school leather strap rather than a modern paddle, and the bell has a kranz. There is no maker’s mark to be found, and it is likely an exam instrument made by a journeyman apprentice. It is impossibly cool, and I am so thrilled to have owned and played it. It’s gone now, in the hands of someone who will use it more than I did.

Now, on to the mouthpieces. I tried a fleet of mouthpieces on that soprano, to varying degrees of success. These are my findings:

• Trumpet mouthpieces: it sounds like a trumpet. Very fun to play this way, and there are certainly musical uses for a trumpet that can do true glissandos and other slidey things, but the goal here is to get a proper trombone sound that fits perfectly on top of alto and tenor trombones. For that, trumpet mouthpieces are not the way.

• Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece: I always thought this would be the solution, but thanks to its oversized shank (it is not just a normal trumpet shank!), it does not work very well in the soprano. It does get an amazing beefy trombone sound, but it is very difficult to play high on, so much so that it offers no real improvement in range over an alto trombone.

• Schilke 24 trumpet mouthpiece: This is a massive trumpet mouthpiece, somewhere in between any normal-sized trumpet mouthpiece and the Bach 9AT above (inner diameter 18.29mm). I thought it might do well, but it ended up being nearly as hard to play as the 9AT but with a thinner sound. Not the move.

• Denis Wick 2 alto horn mouthpiece: even harder to play on than the 9AT, which is not surprising as the DW 2 is the biggest alto horn mouthpiece Denis Wick makes. It is BEEFY.

• Kelly 3W alto horn mouthpiece: the Kelly is a deeper British-style alto horn mouthpiece like the Wick 2, but it is significantly lighter (being plastic) and is not as large or deep. The result works well in the soprano. The tone is nice and dark, with a trombone-like broadness. Range is good too, with a comfortable range up to Bb5. It still feels too deep both from a sound and effort perspective, but it doesn’t feel too far off the mark for a broad classical soprano trombone sound. The alto horn-sized rim also feels right for instrument, and my bass trombonist face certainly appreciates the additional room.

• Marching mellophone mouthpieces: I tried 3 of my marching mellophone mouthpieces (Hammond 5MP, Benge Mello 6V, CKB Mello 6) and they all worked about as well. These get a bright sound that is definitely not the right move for classical playing, but for playing jazz on top of small tenor trombones the sound feels just about perfect. There is lots of snap and sizzle to the sound, but it is still much fatter and noticeably more trombone-like than with a trumpet mouthpiece. Articulations also sound like a trombone rather than a trumpet, and the range is unaffected with an easy C6.

• Holton 55 alto horn mouthpiece: after my experiences with all of the above, I had postulated that an American alto horn mouthpiece with a shallower bowl cup might be the perfect solution. So far, I think my hypothesis was on the money. It has a nice fat tromboney sound like the bigger options above, but I can still play comfortably up to around high Bb and it works nicely all over the horn without too much effort (unlike any of those others).

Although I still have not tried every possible kind of mouthpiece yet, I feel that I’ve found a solid formula for both sound and playability that gives the instrument a unique trombone voice: American alto horn mouthpiece for classical, marching mellophone mouthpiece for jazz. That said, there are a few more options I still have to explore the next time I own a soprano:

• German flugelhorn mouthpiece - German flugelhorns use a shank essentially identical to a trumpet shank, so you can use them on anything with a trumpet shank (like soprano trombone). German flugelhorn mouthpieces are also generally not quite as deep as the dark, rich Denis Wick-style flugelhorn mouthpieces, nor are they as shallow and thin as Bach-style bowl cup flugelhorn mouthpieces. It could be a really nice middle ground that would mesh well with the soprano trombone, and given the history of rotary flugelhorns being used in their place, it seems like it would be a good fit.

• Curry TF/ACB FX - these hybrid trumpet mouthpieces with deep flugel-like cups are an interesting option. I’m not very confident that they would be the right move, but considering how well the marching mellophone mouthpieces work I could be wrong.

• Chasons hybrid trombone/trumpet mouthpiece - this is the kind of mouthpiece Wycliffe uses on soprano trombone. While I would love to try one of these, they are very expensive and I’m not motivated to spend that kind of money on a possible soprano trombone mouthpiece!

As you can see, I didn’t quite complete my soprano trombone mouthpiece safari. But I did get some excellent results that gave the instrument a proper soprano trombone voice, and I would encourage other soprano trombone owners to expand your horizons beyond trumpet mouthpieces to get the most out of your instrument.

Of course, there is also the question of what soprano trombone to buy if you don’t already have one. Fortunately, there are not too many choices to be confused by and I’ll give you a quick summary of each.

• Cheap Chinese sopranos - if you just want a soprano to mess around with for fun or to see if you have any interest in pursuing the instrument further, this is the tier you should be looking at. There are a million different brands, but you should ignore them all and buy the Thomann SL-5. Why? Because they are all the exact same instrument, and the Thomann is the cheapest by a significant margin. It’s VERY cheap, so if you really want a soprano and don’t want to budget very much for it your search ends here. Even used Chinese sopranos cost more than this.

• Jupiter 314 - this was the most popular entry-level soprano when it was in production, as it came before all the cheap Chinese ones. They are no longer made, but you can find them used occasionally for around the same price as most new Chinese sopranos ($200-300). The Thomann is still much cheaper, but you probably won’t get a bad example with a Jupiter and it will hold its value better.

• Carol Brass CTB-2005 - The “2” is important here. Carol Brass also makes a CTB-1005 which is the same basic instrument as the Chinese sopranos, but likely a better instrument as Carol Brass is a company with actual quality control like Jupiter. However, the CTB-2005 is truly a cut above. All the Chinese sopranos, the CTB-1005, and the Jupiter 314 are tuned via the tenon attaching the bell to the slide, which is the cheapest and worst method. The CTB-2005, on the other hand, has proper leadpipe tuning like a flugelhorn. As far as affordable sopranos go, it is far and away the best option. However, while Thomann used to sell the CTB-2005 for just over $200, they no longer do. The only place I can find that still apparently sells it is this Russian website, which says the CTB-2005 is available “on request”. So unfortunately, there is no easy way to buy one now (if at all). I’ve never seen one used, and it can’t have sold very well if Thomann dropped it. But if one does show up, grab it!

• Carol Brass CTB-2005-GLS-GL - Carol’s mind-numbing alphanumeric naming scheme makes it seem like this should be a simple variation of the above soprano trombone, but this is actually a completely new model, recently introduced. Notably, it is pitched in G rather than B-flat! It uses the bell (including that big shepherd’s crook) from the maker’s Phat Puppy flugelhorn, and does sound much more flugel-like than most soprano trombones. A very interesting new development for the soprano!

Carol Brass CTB-2005-GLS-GL soprano trombone in G - see the full product page here

• Miraphone 63 - this is the only factory professional-level soprano trombone on sale today. I haven’t played one so I don’t know how well it plays, but at $2300 this is really only an option to the most dedicated players.

• Thein - this is probably a soprano that is really worth the money, but it is a LOT of money. If you absolutely must have the very best soprano money can buy, this is your ticket.

• Custom - honestly, if you have a tech you trust and access to a cornet bell and a small bore trombone slide, I would rather get one custom made than buy a cheap factory instrument. You can make it whatever bore you want, whatever mouthpiece shank you want, add a valve if you want, and so on. It will probably play at least as well as a new Chinese instrument and be infinitely cooler.

• Vintage Used - Occasionally, used sopranos from the early 20th century will turn up for sale online, often for prices in the new Chinese range. If they are in decent shape and going for the right price, they could be a good option. The one model I would avoid is the DEG/Getzen with the ultra-narrow handslide.

• Minick - The famed brass maker Larry Minick made a few sopranos, including a few with valves for studio players. They are extremely rare today.

Minick soprano trombone

Minick soprano trombone with F attachment

Wessex Tubas also once briefly offered a large bore (.500”) soprano with F attachment on their website, model PB455. However, it was removed almost immediately due to quality issues. They sadly never fixed the issues and relaunched the product, though the owner of Wessex did tell me a few years ago that you could still custom order one if you wanted.

the stillborn Wessex PB455 soprano trombone with F attachment

Torbjörn Hultmark’s Thein soprano trombone that the Wessex was likely based on

Here is a final curiosity for you - a soprano valve trombone!

Sadly only have this photo, so I have no idea who the maker is. But it looks to be a genuine soprano not made from trumpet parts, so while you can be forgiven for thinking “isn’t soprano valve trombone just a trumpet”, in this case I think the answer is no. Much like a tenor valve trombone isn’t the same thing as a bass trumpet, I think that a real soprano valve trombone (not just trumpet parts arranged into a trombone shape) wouldn’t play or sound the same as a trumpet.

I always wondered if such a thing existed, and now that I have proof I need to have a valve section made the next time I own a soprano trombone. Because why not?